Dr. Dianne Ansari-Winn had her own battles with burnout until she turned to a physician coach, then became a coach and now teaches coaches. There are executive coaches, sales coaches, tennis coaches, but until recently, not many physician coaches. With the increase in physicians dissatisfied and unfulfilled by their careers, the “physician coach” is responding. Dr. Dianne and I discuss why our field has been slow to realize the importance of coaching, her five-step physician vitality recovery system, some of the most common issues she encounters as a coach and I even get a free mini-coaching session!
Please see the above link to learn more about her coaching and be sure to check out her podcast, The Doctor’s Life.
Disclaimer: This is the transcript to the episode. This transcript was created by a talk to text application and the function of having this here is to improve the page search engine optimization. This transcript has not been proofread, so please listen to the episode and don’t read this. The information contained herein will inevitably contain inaccuracies that affect that quality of the information conveyed and the creator of this content will not be held liable for consequences of the use of the information herein.
Unknown Speaker 0:03
Welcome to the physicians guide to doctoring A Practical Guide for practicing physicians were Dr. Bradley Block interviews experts in and out of medicine to find out everything we should have learned while we were memorizing Krebs cycle. The ideas expressed on this podcast are those of the interviewer and interviewee and do not represent those of their respective employers.
Unknown Speaker 0:25
Today’s episode we speak with Dr. Diane and sorry, when an anesthesiologist who suffered from burnout and managed to find her way out. She took that experience and turned it into a passion. Now she not only coaches physicians that are suffering from burnout, but she coaches physicians who want to coach other physicians. We discuss the importance of having a coach and why this is common in many other high performing fields. But not in medicine, at least not yet. The function of a coach and tips for physicians who may be suffering from burnout or know someone who is and I even got a bit of coaching myself during that interview. She even followed up with me the following day about what we discussed. This in all of my episodes are produced by car and Gill free professional voiceover artist. And she can be found at ca ri n g i ll fry calm. And now, Dr. Diane and sorry when Welcome back to the physicians guide to doctoring. On today’s episode we have Dr. Diane and sorry when, who’s a very accomplished anesthesiologist who, after 15 years in practice, pivoted and is now a full time physician coach. She not only coaches other physicians who may be experiencing the also common physician burnout, but now she’s actually teaching coaches teaching other physicians how to coach other physicians and extending herself in that way. So Dr. On sorry when did her undergrad and medical school and mph at the University of Michigan dinner anesthesia residency at Illinois State Sonic, and then a fellowship at the University of Chicago in both cardiac and pain, and was then an anesthesiologist for 15 years in Denver, Colorado, before pivoting into coaching. She received her certificate in CO active coaching from the coaches Training Institute, and is a graduate of the CTAs year long leadership incubator, the CO active Leadership Program. She is a physician development coach, and currently started and is managing the physician vitality Institute in order to coach physicians through difficult times, or even not so difficult times because kind of like therapy, it helps people that are living well, to live even better. She’s also the host of one of my favorite podcasts, the doctors life podcast, which serves our physician community in a similar way to this one, and that we’re both trying to help physicians to live their best lives. So Dr. I’m sorry when Thank you So much for for taking the time out of your extremely busy schedule to come to talk to me today about about coaching, the importance of coaching, how you got into coaching, and and what we can all learn from someone who’s studying, coaching as much as you have.
Unknown Speaker 3:16
Well, thanks Jackie read is great to be here this evening. Thanks so much for the invitation. And the that very warm introduction. I just wanted to make a slight correction just so that so the folks in the audience kind of know what I’m doing. I left corporate pivoted as you said, I left clinical practice six years ago and I actually started working in industry. So I, my I actually have two jobs. My day job is a medical director in industry, and then my passion project and the work that I do around That work so read evenings and weekends is, is the coaching the physician vitality Institute, the podcast. So, just like all of you guys, you know, sometimes transitioning from non clinical or clinical and non clinical doesn’t mean that you’re less busy because we have our interests and the things that we love to do. And, you know, we’re doctors, so we don’t want to miss out
Unknown Speaker 4:30
at all. Wow. Yeah, I’m sorry. I’m sorry about that. That that mistake, because as you are, it seems like that is not a side gig. It’s
Unknown Speaker 4:41
a full time job. Wow.
Unknown Speaker 4:42
Well, you know, it’s a it’s a doctors part time job, which is anybody else’s full time job.
Unknown Speaker 4:49
Yeah, definitely. That’s how we were all so so. coaching, how did you get into coaching? How did that become something that was even because a lot of us, we don’t even know Realize that a physician coaches is a thing you hear about executive coaches and, but but I know it’s something that’s that most of us could probably, if not all of us could benefit from so how did you discover that this was even a thing and then and then get into it?
Unknown Speaker 5:14
Yeah. Well, you know, interestingly, physician coaching has become a lot more prevalent, which I’m so excited about. now. I’ll talk about that specifically a little bit more later. My role and in creating more physician coaches, but how I got into physician coaching was probably about nine years ago when I really started to feel like I was burning out like I was not enjoying what I was doing. I was really feeling like it was you know, it’s really tough because I had been super high achievers you you know, you’re so kind introduction it’s you know, I went straight from a graduated from high school. It 16 I went to college at 16 straight into med school you know right into the very you know competitive residency I was chief resident married someone that was in my medical school class was also you know super high priorities pulmonary critical care you know went to Denver private practice had two kids and you know in the fight first five years did my practice and became partner bought the house the starter house so that one got the VIP Dr. House you know, so just plugging along being super high achiever and then I just started feeling really tired I started feeling fatigued. I started feeling trust not trusting myself in my work, even though I was still doing very good work. You know, I was the kind of doc that I was. would get requests, you know, from the nurses and from other docs if they wanted a family member to be cared for. Or if they had a patient that needed TLC, they would look for me. I did a lot of ob because I loved being with the patient’s ob anesthesia meeting. I love being with awake patients. I you know, and I was really good at my work, but I started to feel like I was sliding and even though I wasn’t, you know, on the outside, but on the inside, I could definitely feel the science of burnout coming on. And so I was looking for help. I was looking to talk to other another doctor about it, you know, I didn’t really feel honestly, you know, I didn’t feel so I could talk to my friends. My colleagues, most of my friends were surgeons, no offense, Dr. Brad, but you know, like, you don’t want to talk to other docs that are in your circle because the concern is that they’re going to think that you are Nothing just you think you’re sliding. But if you you know, if you say that you might be feeling like you’re not enjoying your work or you’re, you’re really tired or you know, it just doesn’t sound like just, you know, the regular doctor, doctors lounge complaining that we do all the time. But
Unknown Speaker 8:16
you have an episode a little while ago
Unknown Speaker 8:21
that were you were discussing that with someone. And they talked about just how frequent that is that so many of us are experiencing those symptoms, right? And if you were to, you know, reach across the drape as it were, and try to discuss something like that with someone. It sounds like you’d be surprised how often we’re feeling like that. That being said, if you’re anesthetizing one of my patients, and you said, Listen, Brad, I’m really not feeling so into this right now. Probably wouldn’t get the best reaction
Unknown Speaker 8:55
on it. Yeah. And then you know, Yes, exactly. And then you have to keep in mind, you know, you’re talking now I’m talking nine years ago, this is before Facebook. They’ve before LinkedIn before Twitter, before this sort of movement around physician burnout that starting to come out before all the research came out on physician burnout. So basically, you know, we we learned in med school and residency, like, never show your weakness, never, never. And so for me to even say anything like that, I felt that was, would be. It was scary to do. And so I was looking for a safe place to land a safe person to talk to you.
Unknown Speaker 9:44
And so in the dream, you had the house, you had the family, you had the job you had the career, you had everything that we aspire to have, how dare you be unhappy? That’s what that comes down to.
Unknown Speaker 10:00
Well, it is that and then also like, is she gonna crack in the middle of a case and like, just leave that or like, you know, like, Could she be dangerous? Could she be you know, Could she be dangerous to me my patients, you know, so that was the fear. And it’s still a fear, actually, if I you know, when I talk to physicians, that I coach is still a fear. But anyway, I was looking for someone to speak with, I found one physician coach, he left clinical medicine and she had learned coaching, and I found her and then as far as like other coaching, I actually started seeing a psychiatrist because I just thought there was something wrong with me, you know, I’m, but I learned I was burned out. There wasn’t anything wrong with me specifically except those for now. So, so I got into coaching because I was inspired by the coach that I was working with and I thought this is really cool. Like You know, night, I don’t want to go back to residency and study psych. So it’s like, well, coaching sounds really great and it’s such a great community of supportive people, not just docs, but non physicians. They are an amazing group of people and some of my best friends are our coaches. I just love the coaching community so but I got into it because of my own need search and my own needs at that time.
Unknown Speaker 11:31
So we do have that movement that is now prevalent where we’re all becoming more aware of physician burnout and but the the coaching, I still think is something that is very undervalued and underutilized in our industry. You know, executive, like I said, executive coaches, sales people have coaches. It’s very prevalent in in so many industries, but we’re all taught to be so self sufficient, right? don’t show any signs of weakness because like we’re, you know, you’re at the top of your class. This is this is who we are, this is what we do. You can’t show any cracks in the armor. All right. Well, why do you? Why do you think clearly you think coaching is important in it? you’d be hard pressed to find someone that disagrees with it. But But why do you think we were so late to catch on? Do you think it’s just this? It’s in our culture?
Unknown Speaker 12:33
Yeah, I think I think that’s the primary driver. And as you are, you already pointed out a lot of the reasons you know, we self select into medicine. We’re very driven group of people were very resilient group of people self sufficient. And that is reinforced in how we learn medicine, how we communicate. to each other as colleagues in medicine, and I think also that we’ve kind of can confuse the compartmentalization that that sort of is required of us to be professionals. And we confuse that and just put put all of like the emotions and everything that we have when we’re working, we put them away. And then sometimes forget that we need to like take them back out and process some, you know, if you if you and I were together in the ER, we had a difficult case. You know, where you’re, you’re at, and at one point, you’re kind of, you know, like, oh, holy crap that was going on. But then you switch into your doctor boat and so you just, you know, and that’s, that’s the thing to do, you know, so that your emotions don’t confound your actions. So we do what we need to do. But then, you know, at least we know when I was in practice, like we might have gone like who that was tough one and thank God, you know, just tuck them away and the unit or wherever. And then what will we do? Though we’re late rego go do next case like we’re not, you know, like, how did you feel wasn’t that scary or like we’re not doing any of that
Unknown Speaker 14:22
we’re just there’s no decompression.
Unknown Speaker 14:24
No, no, we’re just it’s going on to the thing. And then and I think that’s where we kind of take that for granted. And then maybe so we wouldn’t take that time one. We may we may be running late. So maybe if it’s lunchtime, and we’re running late for the next case, do we go eat? No, we’re not going to eat. We go and start the next one. So like we’re neglecting ourselves on multiple fronts in order to get the work done, and and that’s that’s laudable and it’s way but it takes it to
Unknown Speaker 15:00
And ultimately, right you get those signs of burnout and it can lead to apathy, which then ultimately affects patient care. And the reason that you’re, you’re skipping lunch is because you’re trying to look out for the patients and the schedule and the other doctors and you’re trying to take care of other people. So ultimately what you’re trying to do is ends up being self destructive. So, so if you
Unknown Speaker 15:20
said Well said, Thank you.
Unknown Speaker 15:22
So so if you if you have someone like a, let’s say, you meet another doctor at a cocktail party, right, okay. And you tell them that you’re a physician coach, and they give you the incredulous look right? Like, what is that? Who would? Who would need a coach? What? What’s your what’s your spiel? to use my East Coast? what’s the what’s the spiel? Why, you know, how do you convince someone who,
Unknown Speaker 15:57
I guess, I guess we can start with the How do you convince someone who comes to you feeling like they have a problem? That the coach that the physician coach relationship is a valuable one and what a coach can do for them? And then I guess from there, we’ll move on to Well, what about those skeptics that feel like, Oh, we don’t need to this is ridiculous. This is, too whoo, whoo. So but let’s start with someone that recognizes that they have a problem, and they’re looking to you for help. How do you explain to them the role of a coach? Yeah, thank you. Well, I think the primary role of a physician coach least appear physician coach, first and foremost is to give just like I was describing what I was looking for when I was burning out, is to give a doc a safe place to land and a safe place to talk about what’s happening in their lives because and most of the time, they don’t have that they can’t speak to their colleagues. They not in a in a way that they might that they can completely safe and confidential all the time.
Unknown Speaker 17:06
And then also, you know, a coach is trained to listen and to give feedback in a constructive way. And then we also if you think about it, you know, we have goals that are around our careers. Well, interestingly, like a lot of Doc’s don’t necessarily have goals around their careers, like they go into practice. And then their goal is to practice long as they can, unless you’re in academics or something. But you know, when you look at it, like when I asked people like stocks, like do you have goals around your career, like how do you want your career to fit into your life? How What do you see yourself doing in 1015 years and that’s, you know, then there’s look kind of changed from like in credulousness to like, Oh, I never thought of that.
Unknown Speaker 17:55
Yeah, I had that moment when I started. When I started in practice, because You know, I went through the motions college medical school residency, and then got my job, you know, and then eventually would, I made partner, but like, this is my office forever, let’s say, unless I move move jobs in, I love my practice. I’m a big believer in it. But I saw the chair, I saw the exam rooms, and then I saw the next 40 years, like, this is what this is it this is and then like, just it just because, you know, every we work in, in our through our stages, like spend four years here and four years here in five years here and then and now. 40. Like, so. Yeah, that’s an excellent, I think it’s an excellent point, right? Like is this this is and and for many people, that’s totally fine. I mean, and for me, I have no intention of leaving, right this but I Have a creative outlet. This is why I’m doing the podcast.
Unknown Speaker 19:04
Right? Well, that’s the deal. It’s it, in addition to looking at, like, Where do you want your career? What do you want your career to look like? Right? So it can look like yours, where you’re practicing full time, you know, we just have more options now. And then docs are also interested in talking to me because I have transitioned from non from clinical to non clinical medicine. And I do have a lot of interests and pursuits. So they want they want to know, like, how, you know, how did you do that? How can you do that? And then look, so that’s another category people that speak to me and then and then there’s people who are, they’re kind of soul searching, they’re looking for their next step, what they’d like to do next, or they’re feeling tired and burned out and they know that I’ve recovered from burnout so they want to learn how they can either recover from burnout or
Unknown Speaker 20:01
Or, you know, prevent burnout from occurring.
Unknown Speaker 20:05
So And just to be clear, you recovered from burnout while you were still practicing medicine and continue to to practice clinical medicine right? Because you said it was nine years into practice.
Unknown Speaker 20:17
Well, I started burning out nine years into practice but i i left clinical medicine because of physician burnout. Yo, okay. I did Yes, I didn’t recover from burnout and then leave like I I, you know, when people ask, like, how when did you burn out it’s like, well, when I hit like, probably started to really get kind of crispy about three years before I actually left. And you know, I don’t want to go into all the details, but I actually did a podcast episode on on this not too long ago, but there’s also another one called What do we call it? Going to the dark side I did about a year ago with one of the Well another doc that went, he’s the he was a thoracic, cardiothoracic surgeon and NIH fellow. And he went in into doing clinical trials and industry. So he’s doing research so but for industry and yeah, we call it going to the dark side.
Unknown Speaker 21:18
Oh, but so many people would would salivate. Just, you know, the opportunity to do something like that.
Unknown Speaker 21:26
Right? Right. When you know, again, like we’re talking contextually so this, you know, when we made that transition, I was six years ago, and I think he was like, eight years ago, like, even when I was thinking of leaving medicine and going to industry, that’s what I got, you know, like, Oh, so you’re gonna go to the dark side, huh? Yeah, I think I am. So, so about three years before I actually left is when I started realizing that I probably should consider an exit strategy, but I wasn’t really sure. And that’s when I started putting things in In the place slowly but I started looking at and I just like I said, we did a whole episode on how to do it but you know, you start need to start looking at your finances, your you know, you need to start looking at Would you be willing to take a pay cut, looking at your overhead your debts, your kids in private school, your nanny, you know, like, all that stuff. You know, it’s if you’re smart and you can do it, it’s good to look at all of those things so that if you decide to leave clinical medicine, that it’s not such a big leap or a big impact because leaving medicine alone is a huge impact. It’s a loss, you’re going to feel grief around it. Even if you wanted to do it. I swear my medicine was in my bones and I think it still is, but it’s so it was one of the toughest things that I ever did, but it was definitely necessary for me to do My own well being, just taking too much again, there’s a cost right there. So what you love to do, and then there’s the cost that it takes to do it. So for some people that becomes out of balance, and they, you know, it makes sense to cut back or transition and for others, you can recover that it is possible to recover from burnout stay in practice. And I think maybe what were you’re referring to is that I haven’t had a single client of my life.
Unknown Speaker 23:37
Clearly not a great, great example.
Unknown Speaker 23:40
she recovered and practice medicine for another six years. No, that is incorrect. But But you do coach people who then go on to stay in medicine. Yeah, they do. Okay.
Unknown Speaker 23:53
I’m super happy about that work. Yeah. Because I want to see docs. I want to see docs. Do that. work that they love to do, I want to see them happy. I want to see them fulfilled and on purpose and on track. And so whatever that looks like for them is what they should be doing.
Unknown Speaker 24:12
So that the so we started this part of the conversation with how would you discuss what a coach does with a someone who recognizes the benefits of coaching. Now, how would you respond to a coach skeptic? And that that answer might be well, I wouldn’t, and that’s totally fine. But, but how would you start convincing someone who’s skeptical about the benefits of a physician coach, or even the role of a physician coach, right knowing knowing what physicians are like,
Unknown Speaker 24:46
right? Well, you know, I think, and it’s not that it’s like the skeptic at the cocktail party. This is an ongoing discussion in our physician community. We know when you start looking at the reasons for Why docs burnout, right? Because there’s there’s three components to it. There’s an individual component, organizational component, and the cultural component. They all contribute to a physician burnout. So some people say that, you know, Docs, docs don’t burn out because themselves, they burn out because the system sucks. And it’s like, yes, the system does. And what I do is to help dogs that are still, you know, working within the system to do what they can for themselves, including advocating for themselves, so that they can, you know, have the best career that they want to within the system. So I think what I you know, for a skeptic, that’s like, because I’ve had skeptics come and talk to me, they’re like, well, what’s the difference between you and a friend or you and a therapist, and I will just say that the difference between a coach and a friend is that a coach is completely and totally invested in your agenda and your goals. They don’t have a You know the gender of a friend and they don’t and they whatever wacky crazy goals you think you might have, the coach is going to help you achieve them. And then and coaching is not therapy, although there is a lot of process in coaching, you know, if you come in you talk about your feelings, and you talk about your fears, and you talk about your big dreams, that’s process work. And so that but that is not therapy. The nice thing though, about a physician coach is that they can, they can kind of see a little maybe a little more readily than someone that’s just like a plain old life coach, that you might need therapy now or that you might be depressed, and then in refer you, you know, to the proper person, you know, it might be and I you know, I talked about this when I talk to docs about recovery, and one of those pieces is to make sure that you’re in good physical health. So if you come Me and you, you told me that you’re tired all the time. You know, I’m like, when’s the last time your family doc? Have you seen him in the last year? You know, you might have a medical condition that has gone undiagnosed, you know, because you haven’t been caring for yourself as well. And, you know, with a lot of docs, don’t go see a physician regularly for checkups. I’m, you know, I’m in that number. You know, I went not long ago, but it’s been a couple of years. Before that, I must admit so. So that I think in that way, as physician coaches a little bit more adept and making sure that you we still keep the eye on the ball in terms of looking at your, your health, but but coaches look at your entire life. They look at not just your career and your goals, but we help you look at what’s happening in your family, what’s happening with your finances, what’s happening. You know, your mindset and terms of, you know,
Unknown Speaker 28:03
do you feel like you
Unknown Speaker 28:05
can’t leave medicine because you don’t deserve to leave medicine or you know, there’s just a lot of factors involved. But I would say that the thing about a coach, position coaches, they get it, they have been through it. So they’re unlike any other kind of coach in that respect. You know, when you when you use acronyms when you refer to your medical education, when you talk about getting pimp drive, when you talk about staying up for 36 hours, you know, we get it, we get it, whereas you just so you don’t have to explain that safety. that camaraderie, it’s right there for you. So and so I’m like, Well, if somebody doesn’t want that, then that’s that’s all good.
Unknown Speaker 28:59
That was An excellent sales pitch
Unknown Speaker 29:04
not liking pizza.
Unknown Speaker 29:09
We could have a debate about Chicago versus New York.
Unknown Speaker 29:13
And I just tire on the deal. I love Chicago. New York pizza. I love holding it.
Unknown Speaker 29:21
Right now with a knife and fork right you gotta
Unknown Speaker 29:24
like I love the big slice and folding it now. Yeah, I love New York.
Unknown Speaker 29:31
We week. We were
Unknown Speaker 29:35
my husband ex husband’s family’s from from New York. And so we call Chicago pizza. Cheese pie. Yeah, a
Unknown Speaker 29:44
lot of Dan.
Unknown Speaker 29:47
Yeah, a lot of cheese. It’s dough filled with cheese.
Unknown Speaker 29:53
So, so you you started the physician vitality Institute. Correct. That’s yours. That’s yours. Yes. And your five step system that you go through with people when you’re coaching them. So can we go through those? Those five steps? Yeah, we’ll just talk about some of the common issues that you see, and how you help people to address those issues. Yeah. Oh,
Unknown Speaker 30:20
yeah. I’ll be happy to go through them briefly. And I’ll also say to that, I’m excited to announce I think this is the first time I’ve announced it on a podcast that I’m actually wrote up my system and so as a book, and that is going to be the talk about a busy for like, want something done, ask a busy person. So that’s going to be released on January 2. And yeah, it’s called doctor heal that myself physicians guide to health and wellness. So that’ll be released. Yeah, thank you. So, so just briefly, what I talked to Doc’s about is this first principle is energy management. So looking at things in terms, looking at your life and your actions and the things that you do in terms of energy, meaning things that energize you and things that deplete you, not just in terms of tasks, right? So like you say, have surgery, right? And if you know it’s going to be a long surgery, but it’s like you geek out, it’s like your favorite surgery. You love it, you know, so when you come out of that six hour case, in some ways, you’re tired just because of the time that you spent, but like because it was so fulfilling to you. How do you feel at the end? you actually feel energized, like or imagine like having to spend like six hours studying for boards. Six hours, right? How do you feel after that? Probably depleted his mic. That’s, that’s how I would feel Yeah, you can spend the same amount of time doing a task that like energizes your depletes do. So just keep that in mind as you’re, you know, you know, if you did learn take nothing else from this, start thinking about energy management as opposed to like your task management.
Unknown Speaker 32:21
Because it may be things that you think you enjoy, because you should enjoy them. So you’ve convinced yourself that you enjoy them, but in fact, you don’t. So they’re, yeah, they’re depleting you without you recognizing it, because they’re the things that you’re supposed to like,
Unknown Speaker 32:36
right? And it kind of hinges ideas like between work and play, like some people go to work and they’re like, well, I can’t wait until I finish work so that I can go like play with my family, whatever. And then, you know, you can feel kind of guilty because like childcare and housework and stuff like that, you know, may may have some may feel good in some ways, but in some ways, it’s hard work and it can be depleting. So it just takes away those labels of like what is work in play? It’s okay to, it’s okay, if your work energizes you, it’s okay if you know, housework depletes you, and kind of knowing those things will help you when you’re trying to figure out where you need help. Because you’re looking for more of the activities that are going to energize you, or at least put them in a sequence, where you’re not like doing all the depleting tasks together on the energizing tasks together. So, you know, in some ways, that’s why like, if you schedule things and you’re like, I can’t wait, so I go on vacation, and then you do a vacation. That is, it’s fun, but it’s also can be like, you know, taxing, like, you know, like, we I live in Colorado for 15 years, right? So, you know, people would come from Texas, they go skiing, and they would have a great time. But you know, it’s like, sometimes it’s not as relaxing as it would have been to choose something else like so you kind of look at the you know, what was the purpose of the vacation. It was like to relax, would you renew rejuvenate? So you have to learn, you know, it’s like Dr. Hill myself needs to learn, you know, who you are. And you know what, what does energize you What does deplete you, and it’s different for different people. So that’s the first thing just to keep in mind. So that’s what I started to teach docs. And another thing is, I want to really emphasize is that it’s really important to care for yourself and to make yourself a priority in your life. And I know particularly for doc set have work and kids and family responsibilities that that can really fall by the wayside. But it is so true that like, you can not have the capacity to do everything that you need to do especially at such a high level if you don’t take good care of yourself. And so it’s not selfish, and it’s not rude and Not me, like it’s just something that you need to do so that you can be at your best sell. So those are the two things I kind of want people to be thinking about. And then I teach more specific strategies about how to renew your energy in different ways. So, and the whole system is called the physician vitality system, like based on the physician vitality Institute. So things that energize us connecting with others. So there’s a, you know, a module on that there’s a chapter on that in the book. So not so friends, family colleagues, you know, maybe it just taught and I teach ways to do that, how to make better connections. And then inspiration. So connecting with things that inspire you, it doesn’t matter like you know, whether it’s doesn’t have to be like traditional spiritual practices. But even like walking outside in nature, meditation, looking at a picture of your kids, like the things that get to your heart, what makes your heart feel glad, that’s inspiration. Then the other thing that I teach docs are calming techniques. So things that you can rake and help you to calm your mind. So that you have relaxed and focused thought like during your day and then how to recover from your your day. So, simple practices that will help you give you more energy during your work day and then also help to energize to, you know, before the end of your workday. Then I also teach about caring for your body. So again, you know, like, getting that checkup getting the exercise, eating meals, I mean, these are like simple things sometimes but dogs we just, we are just, you know,
Unknown Speaker 36:57
we just our
Unknown Speaker 36:59
schedule was packed. I didn’t eat dinner.
Unknown Speaker 37:01
Did you eat lunch today, doctor?
Unknown Speaker 37:05
Actually, my wife was not gonna appreciate this because she gets mad when I skip meals But no, not lunch and then by the time I finished seeing all my patients and made all my phone calls, it was time for this interview. So know your dinner. Yes,
Unknown Speaker 37:18
Unknown Speaker 37:20
And that’s the thing is there’s this is there’s this chest thumping mentality in medicine that like I got two hours of sleep last night, and I’m just gonna power through because I’m the toughest guy and I you know what, I just sucked it up. And I didn’t need anything today because I just took care of patients because I’m this martyr. Right? Like, yeah, I could have made my schedule a little lighter and Yeah, actually, actually lunch or really would have served my patients better had I stopped for lunch and taken a walk around the block outside. Right cleared my head room. Reset me a little bit. Right? That sounds like what you’re saying, right? walk off a couple spots, take a walk around the block, and then my afternoon patients will be better served by me having having done that.
Unknown Speaker 38:14
Absolutely. Absolutely. So yep, and last but not least, emotional fitness. So being aware of our thoughts, particularly our negative thoughts, and how to recognize them and how to turn them around as best we can. And that’s, it’s just simple, simple. You know, it’s old, good old fashioned, offering. conditioning, basically recognize the thought, you know, let it, identify it, recognize it, and see like, how it’s how it shows up in your body, or how it showing up and then ways to to switch those Let those negative thoughts go away because those in themselves, not only are they obviously their negative thoughts, who wants to feel negative, but you know, those get passed on to family, friends, colleagues, patients, and turn on yourself. So being emotionally fit is the last of the five, like major components of the system. But I think if you’re, you know, take the one thing away, like you’re saying, you know, just ask yourself, Is it like, is what will really happen if I take 10 minutes to eat? And, you know, go to the restroom, like, like, what really happened? You know, what, like, how much better could it be? If I know like, I’m going to be late seeing patients, and I take two minutes, and I send a text to my wife or call my wife or husband. Just say, Hey, I was thinking about you. can be late. Whatever. Like that’s the connection to others.
Unknown Speaker 40:05
Oh yeah. But in it when you’re when you’re seeing patients in the office, what happens is that that snowballs right you start seeing patients late, and then that puts you further behind and then then the next patient you have to apologize and that takes a minute and then that adds to your and then by the end of the day, you’re running like an hour behind and nothing’s few things stress me out more than seeing a whole bunch of patients that are waiting for me. So yeah, that’s how I keep my stress level to a minimum is by actually skipping, like taking my time with my patients using my lunchtime to catch up and then putting on time so but I should just make well that’s
Unknown Speaker 40:44
it you’re going to turn this into a coaching session, but you could find a way you know, to eat the meal still because you didn’t like you didn’t have to. You’re like how can I get a meal because the whole purpose is just to get food in so yeah, can I get the meal and and like, does it have to be all or nothing. So, does it have to be the whole 20 minutes? Or could it be five minutes? Can I take, you know, in order to like get my stress level down? Could I, before I go into the next patient’s room? Take five deep breaths and just center myself. Yeah. And and get rid myself of the negative thoughts of that somehow being a being late equates with your value as a physician or as a husband or whatever. And, you know, like, I’m always like, back it up to the present moment. Just back it up. So take those couple of deep breaths and walk in and like, you know, I’m Dr. rad. I’m so glad you’re here. Let’s look at what can I do for you be present for them. They won’t care like that. You’re we’re five minutes late. You’re there. For them, not like rest. They won’t care. Believe me, I’ve been on both sides of it.
Unknown Speaker 42:06
These were two lessons that you said were actually in previous episodes episode for the where I had a patient experience representative. One of his big tips was before each visit, stop, take a breath, and then open the door and see the next patient that was. And then a show that hasn’t been published at the time that we’re recording. This was with Dr. Stephanie SOG is a PhD in psychology. And she works at the Harvard weight management center. And we talked about how to talk to people about that are having issues with their weight about that issue. And what she was one of the things she talked about was there negative self talk, catch people having these. Oh, I’m so stupid. Oh, I’m so right. Make them recognize that they’re saying it and point out how destructive it can be. So the same thing applies to us you have these negative thoughts. If you I think the saying is, if you if if you talk to your friends the way the thoughts in your head talk to you, you wouldn’t have any friends. So recognizing that you have these thoughts that are devaluing you and and helping to turn those around.
Unknown Speaker 43:24
Absolutely. You guys can’t see that Dr. Bad Niren zoom and I am just like nodding my head like a bobblehead and all the things that he’s saying you’re trying not to interrupt but I have the hugest grin on my face and just smiling and nodding and acknowledgement. You are on the money. Dr. Brad I so appreciate
Unknown Speaker 43:44
applying it is a different.
Unknown Speaker 43:46
Unknown Speaker 43:48
Now that I’m hearing it again, it’ll hopefully it’ll help me to then you know, this is obviously I’m not recording this just for me. It’s for the listeners as well. I think we’re running short short on time. But I’m I’m really enjoying this, I’m hoping you can stay on just a little longer. And just mentioned if you have some some of the issues that you see that have relatively simple ways to correct them. So when your code of your coaching clients, you probably see some common threads. So if you could just mention one or two things that have relatively simple solutions. What would those be?
Unknown Speaker 44:34
Well, I would say that, you know, one of the things is that we’ve already talked about it, so I’m not going to like go into like a whole nother, you know, discussion. But I think that that a lot of Doc’s come in, and they feel as though they aren’t valued. They are they are working hard and they’re doing their work, and they’re feeling bit undervalued and misunderstood. And so So I think one of the things to help to ameliorate that is to do just a simple practice. When you get home at night or before you leave, just write down three wins for the day, three things that you did good related to your work or some the way you communicated with someone or whatever it is three wins, just so that’s one thing you can do. You know, just the simplicity is real simple. They’ll just give you simple structures. The other thing is that doctors often feel like disconnected and they feel lonely. You know, interestingly, in part, I think because we do have to assume the role of superhero, superhuman, even though we’re just simply human and we have a special skill set. We always have a very special skill set and we are truly People not going to deny it. Like we’re, like I said before, I think doctors are awesome, we’re resilient, we’re bright, we’re motivated, we want to give to the world. And you know, and, you know, I, so I’ve, I’ve given you four wins right there, like just who you are. So just keep keep that in mind that that you are doing the superhuman special work, but that you are, you know, simply human and it’s okay to have needs, wants desires, hunger, thirst.
Unknown Speaker 46:42
It’s all it’s okay. And I think that as slowly but surely, we’re going to change the culture, you know, medicine as we go through and, and will be more supportive of each other. You know, it’s like you said executives have coaches. therapists have groups that big Why? Because They know that their work is hard. So they talk to each other about their work. Why so that they continue to continue to do their work at a high level. So, you know, take a page out of their playbook. It’s it’s not an admission of weakness, to just admit that you have needs human needs.
Unknown Speaker 47:21
So if someone wants to take a deeper dive into this, where there are a multitude of places where people can find you, where can people find you?
Unknown Speaker 47:28
Yeah, thanks. Well, you can find me on all social media at Dr. Diane MD. So you know, I’m not going to run through all this social media but you can find me there. You can find me on my website www.dr. Diane, calm, and that will tell you more about me and also gives you links over to the physician vitality Institute. You can listen to the Dr. Side podcast, through that website. And then you can also Find out about the spirit more interested in helping other docs and becoming a physician coach. And I actually launched a training program for doctors. It’s running its first session now the spa and we are we’re already enrolling for a second session that starting on October 15. So it’s called the physicians Coaching Academy. And in three months, you can learn how to become have coaching conversations with other physicians. And so I have a few docs in that group that want to be coaches. I have docs in that group. I have one doc that’s for example, she’s a residency program director. She has doctors coming to her already for advice. She wants to know how to have coaching conversations with them. So So come one come all. ww www.dr diane.com. Find out more about that. So Send me a note through that website, check things out and just feared or, and, and how and, and grow this wonderful community just to try and help docs heal the world. It’s my mission. So join me
Unknown Speaker 49:20
put that book one more time
Unknown Speaker 49:25
that the book is entitled, Doctor heal thyself. So that’s easy to remember. And that will be released on January 2. So well you have a you know some more information about that as it comes closer to launch.
Unknown Speaker 49:44
Fantastic Well, I appreciate you with all these different things that you’re juggling taking the time to have this conversation with me and, and to be on the podcast and for all the great you’re doing all the great work that you’re doing with and for the Physician community and the house of medicine it’s, it is it is it is desperately needed and much appreciate it. So thank you very much.
Unknown Speaker 50:07
Well, thank you. It is it really has been my pleasure to speak with you this evening and I can’t wait to let you go. So you can go.
Unknown Speaker 50:22
Unknown Speaker 50:24
There you go.
Unknown Speaker 50:26
I thought that was the breakfast of champions.
Unknown Speaker 50:30
Unknown Speaker 50:32
Right. Yeah. started the day off with
Unknown Speaker 50:34
graham crackers in juice.
Unknown Speaker 50:37
Exactly. The doctor says
Unknown Speaker 50:40
that’s something only only doctors will understand. graham crackers, cranberry apple and ginger ale.
Unknown Speaker 50:56
Thank you so much.
Unknown Speaker 50:58
That was Dr. Bradley. Lock at the physicians guide to doctoring. Find all previous episodes on iTunes, Stitcher, Google podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts and write us a review. You can also visit us on email@example.com slash physicians guide to doctoring. If you are interested in being a guest or have a question for a prior guest, send a message or post a comment.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai